[ebbc-talk] Shopping at Karim Cycle?

[A***@public.gmane.org]

Sir, I'm not happy about the way my store has been villified by the bike
coalitions and scapegoated by the police and others. It's especially troubling
to see old, outdated newspaper articles, negative blogs lambasting my shop;
Karim Cycle- Berkeley. Your name was associated with one blog I found.If you
and you organization really wants to promote bicycling I don't see these
negative postigs as the way to do it. Let me just say that I have been selling
bicycles for 25 years , I probably personally supplied more bikes to
commuters, in the east bay than any one person I can think of. Yet all I can find on
the internet is negative blogs most of which are untrue,outdated,
exaggerated,libelous or just plain wrong. What about all the bicycles that I've rescued
from the landfill.. What about the thousands of students and commutes I've
supplied bicycles to. what about all the free quick fixes and on-the-spot
repairs and the tire inflation assistance I've provided. I never see any of that
mentioned.Every day is Bike-to-Work day at my store.I would expect a little
more respect from you and your organization if you want me to reciprocate
Sincerely, Adlai Karim

[Marcy]

Mr. Karim-

I fully understand the sentiment expressed in your letter below. As a
reader and occasional poster to this list, I have seen some exchanges about
your store. Instead of a newspaper article, I will tell a personal story.

In 1996 a friend was witness to my partner's bike being stolen, but he
couldn't catch the thief.

A couple days later, my partner went shopping for a "new" used bike. He
stopped at Karim's first, since there was such a large selection of used
bikes.

One of the bikes he found there looked like his, but it had been painted.
He told the store operator. The operator asked him for identifying features
on his bike to prove it was his. Though the bike had been painted he was
able to identify his bike and the store operator agreed to "sell" him back
his own bike for the cost of a tune up. My partner agreed and got his bike
back.

I believe there is a waiting period between the time a store operator
purchases a used bike and re-sells it. I'm sure this waiting period, if it
exists, is more than 2 days. The object of the waiting period is to avoid
just what happened to my partner with his bike. At the time, it was clear
that your store didn't observe a waiting period.

You didn't mention this waiting period in your letter, Mr. Karim.

Do you apply a waiting period before re-selling bicycles you purchase?
Admittedly, my story is now 10 years old. Have your policies or practices
changed since then?

In order to instill confidence in your store as a source for used bicycles,
could you tell us what measures you take to ensure you aren't re-selling
recently stolen bicycles?

I look forward to your response-
Marcy Greenhut
Berkeley

--- Original Message -----
From: <Adlaikarim-***@public.gmane.org>
To: <ebbc-talk-GEA5CrTlzAXTUrdHNAtW+***@public.gmane.org>
Sent: Tuesday, October 31, 2006 6:26 AM
Subject: [ebbc-talk] Shopping at Karim Cycle?

Post by A***@public.gmane.org
Sir, I'm not happy about the way my store has been villified by the bike
coalitions and scapegoated by the police and others. It's especially
troubling
to see old, outdated newspaper articles, negative blogs lambasting my
shop;
Karim Cycle- Berkeley. Your name was associated with one blog I found.If you
and you organization really wants to promote bicycling I don't see these
negative postigs as the way to do it. Let me just say that I have been selling
bicycles for 25 years , I probably personally supplied more bikes to
commuters, in the east bay than any one person I can think of. Yet all I can find on
the internet is negative blogs most of which are untrue,outdated,
exaggerated,libelous or just plain wrong. What about all the bicycles that I've rescued
from the landfill.. What about the thousands of students and commutes I've
supplied bicycles to. what about all the free quick fixes and on-the-spot
repairs and the tire inflation assistance I've provided. I never see any of that
mentioned.Every day is Bike-to-Work day at my store.I would expect a little
more respect from you and your organization if you want me to reciprocate
Sincerely, Adlai Karim
_______________________________________________
ebbc-talk mailing list
http://lists.ebbc.org/listinfo.cgi/ebbc-talk-ebbc.org

[Lee Amosslee]

...I will tell a personal story.
In 1996 a friend was witness to my partner's bike being stolen...
A couple days later, my partner went shopping for a "new" used bike. He
stopped at Karim's first...
One of the bikes he found there looked like his, but it had been painted.
He told the store operator. The operator asked him for identifying features
on his bike to prove it was his. Though the bike had been painted he was
able to identify his bike and the store operator agreed to "sell" him back
his own bike for the cost of a tune up. My partner agreed and got his bike
back.

I would also ask, if the victim could identify the bike enough to
satisfy the store operator that is was stolen, shouldn't the operator
have returned the bike for no cost, since selling stolen goods is a crime?

Marci did not provide enough details for us to make a judgment on the
situation she provided (I'm not criticizing her, just pointing out why I
won't judge this case), but I'm wondering what the store's policy would
be if someone comes in and can clearly demonstrate a bike is theirs
(personal card found in the bottom bracket, state ID numbers stamped in
bike, police report, etc.). Would the bike be returned to the owner?

I do appreciate Mr. Karim's work at keeping bikes in circulation,
providing them at low cost (used vs. new), etc., and understand the
difficulties confronted by running such a business (one stolen bike sold
can lead to a long line of anecdotes about "he sells stolen bikes"). It
is also our responsibilities as bike owners to use the registration
process provided by the state to assist in identifying our bikes if
stolen. If I'm not willing to have the registration number stamped in my
bike, I can't complain if a merchant (Karim, Missing Link, etc.) sells
it used and I come in and say "that's my bike" without proof that it is
mine (and just describing the bike, in my opinion, is not enough--I
could have a friend come in one day, look carefully at a bike, then I
could come in the next day and claim it is my stolen bike, and here's my
list of details about the bike to prove it's mine).

Thank your, Mr. Karim, for your support of used bike sales. I hope you
can continue to clarify to the EBBC list the efforts you make to keep
from selling stolen bikes. Yours is a tough position to be in.

[Marcy]

Sorry so short on the details, but it has been 10 years and it didn't happen
directly to me, and I wasn't there when the bike was retrieved.

I agree, at the time I was astonished that the shop actually charged the
customer who's stolen bike was found there. Apparently the store wasn't
willing to admit the bike was "stolen" and thus compromised by charging only
for the tune.

My best memory is that there was some identifying marks my partner had made
to his own bike and he found them - they showed through the paint. He isn't
the type to "register" but did attempt to theft-proof his own bike.

My point in writing the message was to ask Mr. Karim to assure potential
bike customers (like me!) that they will not be purchasing stolen bikes. I
prefer to purchase "recycled" products, but not at the expense of someone
who's bike was recently stolen.

Having been close to someone who found his recently stolen bike at Karim's,
I don't include Karim's on my list of shops to look for bikes. Perhaps his
policy has changed?

I noted the absense in Mr. Karim's letter, of any discussion of precautions
he takes to ensure he is purchasing and at least not reselling stolen goods.
Why did he omit this important point?

Can anyone remind us if there is a waiting period and what it is?

I would like to be able to shop at and refer people to Karim's, so I'm
asking these questions.
Marcy

----- Original Message -----
From: "Lee Amosslee" <lee-***@public.gmane.org>
To: "EBBC" <ebbc-talk-GEA5CrTlzAXTUrdHNAtW+***@public.gmane.org>
Sent: Tuesday, October 31, 2006 7:06 PM
Subject: Re: [ebbc-talk] Shopping at Karim Cycle?

Post by Lee Amosslee

...I will tell a personal story.
In 1996 a friend was witness to my partner's bike being stolen...
A couple days later, my partner went shopping for a "new" used bike. He
stopped at Karim's first...
One of the bikes he found there looked like his, but it had been painted.
He told the store operator. The operator asked him for identifying features
on his bike to prove it was his. Though the bike had been painted he was
able to identify his bike and the store operator agreed to "sell" him back
his own bike for the cost of a tune up. My partner agreed and got his bike
back.

I would also ask, if the victim could identify the bike enough to
satisfy the store operator that is was stolen, shouldn't the operator
have returned the bike for no cost, since selling stolen goods is a crime?
Marci did not provide enough details for us to make a judgment on the
situation she provided (I'm not criticizing her, just pointing out why I
won't judge this case), but I'm wondering what the store's policy would
be if someone comes in and can clearly demonstrate a bike is theirs
(personal card found in the bottom bracket, state ID numbers stamped in
bike, police report, etc.). Would the bike be returned to the owner?
I do appreciate Mr. Karim's work at keeping bikes in circulation,
providing them at low cost (used vs. new), etc., and understand the
difficulties confronted by running such a business (one stolen bike sold
can lead to a long line of anecdotes about "he sells stolen bikes"). It
is also our responsibilities as bike owners to use the registration
process provided by the state to assist in identifying our bikes if
stolen. If I'm not willing to have the registration number stamped in my
bike, I can't complain if a merchant (Karim, Missing Link, etc.) sells
it used and I come in and say "that's my bike" without proof that it is
mine (and just describing the bike, in my opinion, is not enough--I
could have a friend come in one day, look carefully at a bike, then I
could come in the next day and claim it is my stolen bike, and here's my
list of details about the bike to prove it's mine).
Thank your, Mr. Karim, for your support of used bike sales. I hope you
can continue to clarify to the EBBC list the efforts you make to keep
from selling stolen bikes. Yours is a tough position to be in.
--
Lee Amosslee
_______________________________________________
ebbc-talk mailing list
http://lists.ebbc.org/listinfo.cgi/ebbc-talk-ebbc.org

[Gabriel Frazee]

Given the fact that the Daily Planet had a cover story not that long
ago about Karim Cycles where BPD recovered close to a dozen stolen
bikes (probably would have been more but few people file police
reports for their "beaters") I suppose it's safe to say not much has
changed there.

My own personal experience, while shopping for a used bike, was a
complete and utter lack of customer service. Even after tripping on a
broken bicycle chain which was strung across the aisle and falling
onto the bikes no one came to see if I was ok, they just looked over
their shoulder at me and watched as I struggled to get back up.
Needless to say, I walked out never to return.

Post by Marcy
Sorry so short on the details, but it has been 10 years and it didn't happen
directly to me, and I wasn't there when the bike was retrieved.
I agree, at the time I was astonished that the shop actually charged the
customer who's stolen bike was found there. Apparently the store wasn't
willing to admit the bike was "stolen" and thus compromised by charging only
for the tune.
My best memory is that there was some identifying marks my partner had made
to his own bike and he found them - they showed through the paint. He isn't
the type to "register" but did attempt to theft-proof his own bike.
My point in writing the message was to ask Mr. Karim to assure potential
bike customers (like me!) that they will not be purchasing stolen bikes. I
prefer to purchase "recycled" products, but not at the expense of someone
who's bike was recently stolen.
Having been close to someone who found his recently stolen bike at Karim's,
I don't include Karim's on my list of shops to look for bikes. Perhaps his
policy has changed?
I noted the absense in Mr. Karim's letter, of any discussion of precautions
he takes to ensure he is purchasing and at least not reselling stolen goods.
Why did he omit this important point?
Can anyone remind us if there is a waiting period and what it is?
I would like to be able to shop at and refer people to Karim's, so I'm
asking these questions.
Marcy
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Tuesday, October 31, 2006 7:06 PM
Subject: Re: [ebbc-talk] Shopping at Karim Cycle?

Post by Lee Amosslee

...I will tell a personal story.
In 1996 a friend was witness to my partner's bike being stolen...
A couple days later, my partner went shopping for a "new" used bike. He
stopped at Karim's first...
One of the bikes he found there looked like his, but it had been painted.
He told the store operator. The operator asked him for identifying features
on his bike to prove it was his. Though the bike had been painted he was
able to identify his bike and the store operator agreed to "sell" him back
his own bike for the cost of a tune up. My partner agreed and got his bike
back.

I would also ask, if the victim could identify the bike enough to
satisfy the store operator that is was stolen, shouldn't the operator
have returned the bike for no cost, since selling stolen goods is a crime?
Marci did not provide enough details for us to make a judgment on the
situation she provided (I'm not criticizing her, just pointing out why I
won't judge this case), but I'm wondering what the store's policy would
be if someone comes in and can clearly demonstrate a bike is theirs
(personal card found in the bottom bracket, state ID numbers stamped in
bike, police report, etc.). Would the bike be returned to the owner?
I do appreciate Mr. Karim's work at keeping bikes in circulation,
providing them at low cost (used vs. new), etc., and understand the
difficulties confronted by running such a business (one stolen bike sold
can lead to a long line of anecdotes about "he sells stolen bikes"). It
is also our responsibilities as bike owners to use the registration
process provided by the state to assist in identifying our bikes if
stolen. If I'm not willing to have the registration number stamped in my
bike, I can't complain if a merchant (Karim, Missing Link, etc.) sells
it used and I come in and say "that's my bike" without proof that it is
mine (and just describing the bike, in my opinion, is not enough--I
could have a friend come in one day, look carefully at a bike, then I
could come in the next day and claim it is my stolen bike, and here's my
list of details about the bike to prove it's mine).
Thank your, Mr. Karim, for your support of used bike sales. I hope you
can continue to clarify to the EBBC list the efforts you make to keep
from selling stolen bikes. Yours is a tough position to be in.
--
Lee Amosslee
_______________________________________________
ebbc-talk mailing list
http://lists.ebbc.org/listinfo.cgi/ebbc-talk-ebbc.org

_______________________________________________
ebbc-talk mailing list
http://lists.ebbc.org/listinfo.cgi/ebbc-talk-ebbc.org